Extremely Disappointing [Spoiler Alert: Happy Ending]


#63

@Durstwulf I understand how you feel with Linux just starting out. The last windows version I used with windows 3 in the 90’s. I have literally not used windows in over 20 years. So I get how you feel. I am quite happy I don’t use windows and have stuck with Linux.


#64

Honestly, I disagree with you. I’ve found that the links that have been “thrown” at me by various folks on this forum are usually more helpful than doing a google search myself, as they are already related to the subject matter. Obviously everyone does not learn the same way but please, from a link catcher to the link throwers, please don’t stop!

– d


#65

I would love to watch a video series myself of people using this device and so on.


#66

Yep, the learning curve is hella steep for a nube like me, but thanks to some positive feedback and good luck I finally got some traction and made headway. Which has made all the difference in my personal experience, and system confidence.

I see tons of future potential in ways DOS, and Win, could never hope for. I will work on sharing my progress on these forums for others who may find themselves in a similar blue funk state, or hopelessly lost and confused.

One quick shout out to those of you who were encouraging - keep that stuff up! It does make a difference, even if those of us in need do not reply - Some of us are reading your positive words and using them to move onward and upward.

:^)


#67

@Durstwulf Security is important so here are some tips from Digital Ocean. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/an-introduction-to-securing-your-linux-vps


#68

Did you think of of looking up some Linux tutorials and walk through them? C.H.I.P.'s OS is Debian Linux and the window manager is XFCE.


Make the Debian GUI smaller
#69

WMG18h
Dude Its just a learning curve. Give it time and as the community evolves, I am sure the device will too with the possibility of even inevitability of it getting easier to use in time.

I have half a dozen microcontrollers that I could give you. It isn’t just a learning curve. Have you read the schematic?

Have you located the datasheet for the ARM microcontroller in Chip? How many pages is it?
I was looking at the Beaglebone and it has some chips made by TI in it and one of the data sheets are 1,500 pages long and they are usually written by engineers for engineers using engineer language.

Is Chip running on a 1 GHZ chip? You just can’t go out and buy a regular old oscilloscope for it because it has to be fast enough to sample a chip like that.

Have you read ARM assembly language? It is more involved than 6502 Assembly language.

I actually promoted Chip to one of these hobby microcontroller sites and they weren’t interested in Chip. They didn’t tell me why but the other products they have that I’ve asked about are not for beginners so it could be partly the reason why.


#70

Everything in life has a stress and bumps. It only varies how much deep it is.
For me, I am a specialist in Electrical and Mechanical for too long. I was from electronics background but very less in that field. So I started all these deep holes after wanting to learn Linux and looking for a next hobby, LOL. I am too upset with these cheap items but that was my choice to choose such a cheap device. Well, far away from the struggle with those Pentium Pro PC in 90s but I had learnt a lot from there. Yes, I do agree that Raspberry have better support but Pi is more expensive and zero is selling like hot cakes. At least these days you can google and asked a lot of people online. We here are a lot far better than those who bought Orange Pi or perhaps Pine64.
If you want to burn your CHIP, please send it to me, LOL.
Just do not give up something so easily. You can take a rest for a few weeks then come back for fresh air. That is what I usually do. Sometimes takes months to rest.


#71

Chuckt, I have no idea what you are talking about or what your point is with all this talk about schematics and there being no one willing to teach beginners. Schematics are completely unnecessary to use chip or pocketchip. And there are plenty of people on here, reddit, probably other places that are more than willing to help and teach.


#72

cuddlepuncher23h
Chuckt, I have no idea what you are talking about or what your point is with all this talk about schematics and there being no one willing to teach beginners. Schematics are completely unnecessary to use chip or pocketchip. And there are plenty of people on here, reddit, probably other places that are more than willing to help and teach.

Cuddlepuncher,

It has not been my experience. I’ve had to buy two or three books in college to learn programming because the instructor wouldn’t teach. They just put you in front of a computer and tell you to do it.

I bought dummy books on programming and figured that some of my college teachers knew how to program better than the dummy books that just listed the commands and didn’t give much of an explanation.

Like I said, I can name or shame the forums that won’t teach because I have a dozen different microcontrollers. I’ve actually been shouted out of a forum and insulted by users who said they were able to learn it themselves.

Programming is a lifestyle. You have to take a manual and practice the commands on a computer every day. It gets easier after you have two languages down. The problem is when you have to get rid of the bootloader. BASIC or compiled languages is a bootloader. A bootloader makes things easy. The reason why Jim Butterfield’s “Machine Language for the Commodore 64” costs $80 on ebay is because he was the man. Jim taught people to do things that they normally couldn’t do themselves. There are few people like that today. It is also true that programming from the bare metal involves several disciplines.

It is really untrue that people will teach what I want to do. Most people want to build PC’s from components that are already pre built by manufacturers. That is why when you google how to build a computer, PC’s always comes up. I spent a couple years surveying all of the available chips for video and microcontrollers and there are only a few people who build computers these days. Most people won’t because they can’t compete with Microsoft. There use to be hundreds of computer companies and they all went out of business except for Apple and those who produce IBM clones.

It is not just learning how to program in a language but you also have to learn the architecture. It takes about two years to learn how to program C on a PC because you have to learn the architecture.

I tried starting my own company with computers once and the industry expanded so fast that I went broke. And I’m older now and it doesn’t get any easier.

Will the Last Computer Hobbyist Please Turn Out the Lights?


#73

[quote=“Chuckt, post:72, topic:6053”]It takes about two years to learn how to program C on a PC because you have to learn the architecture.[/quote]I’ve programmed in C on around 10 different architectures and you don’t have to know anything about the hardware to program in C. That’s done by people who write the compilers. Sure you can embed assembly in C, but it’s rarely necessary.

I learned most of C by taking a 1 week, 40 hour class. Becoming proficient with pointers took a little longer.


#74

Did you think of of looking up some Linux tutorials and walk through them? C.H.I.P.'s OS is Debian Linux and the window manager is XFCE.

Bytor,

Chip is advertised as a consumer product. How well do you think it would sell at Toys R Us without people returning it because they were in the same boat because they didn’t know what to do with it?

Just an honest question and the honest answer would be that most consumers at Toys R Us would return it because they have no clue with what to do with it. That is what happens when you call it a consumer product; You get people buying it thinking it is for them and then some realize they can’t do anything with it.

Chuck


#75

We all know one thing for sure. @Durstwulf is making progress with his PocketCHIPs. Just last night I went through getting the IP address of his systems so that he could get multiplayer Descent working. I believe the learning wall he mentioned is slowly crumbling. The genuine excitement I saw in @Durstwulf’s writing last night makes me believe he will succeed in his quest with his PocketCHIPs.

That’s really the point of this forum. To help each other out. There are definitely topics that relate to Linux that I don’t know about and I’ve been using the OS in some form since 2002. I even have a thread on here that I think hasn’t even gotten a response from another user. (No worries on that, figured it out)

Truely, does it really matter how NTC marketed the CHIP and PocketCHIP? Not really. These issues with new Linux users were going to come up regardless. The best we can do is be civil and help them out. The Raspberry PI community has these same issues.


#76

Are you just trolling us? :confused:

I mean, you seem to make claims about knowing how to program in at least two languages, after basically teaching yourself. That you have experience working with microcontrollers and know a lot about low-level hardware. You also claim that you used to own a computer business. So it sounds like you claim to be well past a basic computer user…

But then the complaints come out: this isn’t a consumer-grade product, you can’t make it do anything, nobody will teach you (although it’s not clear what goal you need help with), there isn’t enough documentation about how to work with Debian, etc.

If you are serious, then share what specific goal you are trying to accomplish and need help with. If it’s something people can help with, then I truly believe they will help. But staying positive instead of bickering is the only way to help the community improve.


#77

@ejamer Anyone with as much experience that @Chuckt claims to have with computers should have no trouble getting C.H.I.P to do something. If he really has that much experience he should not need help. I’m willing to help beginners who have little experience with Linux based computer like @Durstwulf but I’m not going to help @ejamer because he apparently has so much experience. He should be able to get started by himself.


#78

One of my family members works for Toys R Us in advertising. Pocket C.H.I.P could be used as a cheap computer to learn coding running a custom os with tutorials and coding examples that are fun and exciting. The trick with Toys R Us is that the products they sell have to have a clear purpose. C.H.I.P could be marketed as a teaching tool. Just look at the Raspberry Pi. There are 8 year olds using scratch with the Pi.


#79

I disagree that having experience means someone won’t need help - everyone needs a little help sometimes. But it’s how you ask for help that matters. :slight_smile:

Complaints can be cathartic, but rarely help you to learn new things or improve your skills.
Questions can help expand your knowledge and skill level, and often help the wider community (it’s common that other people will run into the same issues). There is no shame in asking for help!

I don’t have my PocketCHIP yet, but am excited for it to arrive and have been reading the forums for information that I’ll want to reference later. Despite having some Linux experience and coding skills, it’s entirely possible that I’ll need help with specific configuration details or settings after diving in - just like many others here.


#80

[quote=“ejamer, post:79, topic:6053”]Despite having some Linux experience and coding skills, it’s entirely possible that I’ll need help with specific configuration details or settings after diving in - just like many others here.[/quote]I agree. I have decades of experience using Unix, C, Perl, csh, …; but I’m retired and it’s been several years since I thought much about these things.

When I got my first Chip, I remembered why I didn’t like Bash. I sent email to NTC asking for instructions on how to install csh. Then I googled a bit and found the package (it has been 6-8 years since I played around with Ubuntu) and found the package and instructions to install. Once I installed it, I remembered that I liked tcsh better.

Then I had to search for the package to install a C compiler. After that bit of jogging, things are coming back…


#81

@dl324 In my opinion Zsh is better.


#82

Awe … you are making me blush …

But yes when I started this thread I was hopelessly lost because my expectation was there would be more access to quick solutions. Yet it is very different than DOS which had more intuitive commands - Debian uses so many acronyms that without some quick explanations a typical command line entry looks like so much word salad that it’s daunting.

At times I truly regret starting this thread. I wanted to express the sense of overwhelming directionless I was experiencing, in the hopes folks with the same feelings would come together to find answers.

What seems to have happened is folks are getting quite negative with each other without really forming cohesive bonds to solve the issues and move forward.

I was able to make contacts here (in other posts) that helped me to grasp the concepts I needed to move forward with my Pocket CHIP and build a lot of confidence in a piece of Hardware that has me very excited. In the end I believe that is the real purpose of the Forum. To allow Pocket CHIP users to connect with people who can assist them in learning the Debian language, pushing the current envelope of its function, and at some point in time evolve the Hardware to it’s next Iteration.

Folks please try to move from attacking each other, attacking the Hardware, or attacking the producers, and move into assisting the lost, building the community, and pushing the limits for all of us.

Thanks for believing in me xtacocorex & Akidan, you guys are Rockstars.